If God is Omniscient then Human is not free.

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by sid_16, Apr 9, 2013.

?

Free will doesn't exist If God is omniscient.

  1. If yes, why?

    35 vote(s)
    45.5%
  2. If no, then how?

    42 vote(s)
    54.5%
  1. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    5,518
    1,453
    180
    Michael Moore, "Where to invade next?" (the French and Finish episodes to do with education, food, taxes etc.).

    Use your military education, use a proxy, you techy... :rolleyes: :D :D :D
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  2. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    5,518
    1,453
    180
    Now, now, this really is funny!!!! :D A man who tries to take the proverbial Mickey and writes very long posts, even correcting people who he allegedly agrees with, bitches about somebody doing his own thing - could it be it's because it's done on him?!? :rolleyes: :D :D :D
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  3. PCBONEZ

    PCBONEZ MDL Member

    Mar 10, 2012
    116
    35
    10
    I can't, don't have one.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  4. PCBONEZ

    PCBONEZ MDL Member

    Mar 10, 2012
    116
    35
    10
    #1864 PCBONEZ, Feb 16, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017
    No.
    It's because your post was almost entirely about politics which is OT in this thread.
    I'm not going to perpetuate that huge amount of OT.

    That and I agree with much of what you said about the US.
    Sorry to disappoint you.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  5. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    5,518
    1,453
    180
    OK...

    Btw, organised religion is always "politics"... ;)
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  6. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    5,518
    1,453
    180
    Can we change the title of the thread into "If a fundamentalist state is omnipresent, Humans MUST fight for their freedom!"

    When I say "fundamentalist state", I mean via its military, police, intelligence services, dependent judiciary etc. etc. etc.

    We now know it wasn't just Stalin, Hitler, Duce, Franco, Homeini - but good ol' USofA, UK, Russia and so on and so forth.

    I mean, an agnostic proposal, leaving the Q from the OP behind and actually debating our real world with its probs.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  7. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
    4,071
    4,651
    150
    @gorski: Perhaps another thread should be started along those lines.

    In the US, we have separation of church and state, which is supposed to protect everybody from theocratic rule.

    I can't honestly say whether or not that's working; the lines are blurred.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  8. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    5,518
    1,453
    180
    Hehe, I didn't mean it seriously (to change th thread's title) - in line with the nature of debate, as an agnostic, my proposal is going against "pro et contra" of an un-winable debate, towards one which might be more meaningful, maybe... :)
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  9. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

    Jan 12, 2012
    3,522
    2,093
    120
    #1869 Joe C, Feb 16, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017
    You left out some Islamic states too
    Go over there and say you do not believe in Allah and see where that'll get ya
    (if ya do, try not to lose your head if your opposed)

    Your view of freedom is of your perspective, Here you can say just about anything you want about any god of your choosing, Some places on this earth won't let you do that without being in fear of your existence, and those that are radical will make sure you will not be tolerated
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  10. Katzenfreund

    Katzenfreund MDL Expert

    Jul 15, 2016
    1,373
    831
    60
    I liked this, I'm saving it in my collection of quotes.
     
  11. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
    4,071
    4,651
    150

    @gorski: That makes perfect sense to me. :)

    @Mr.X: I didn't need a Thesaurus this time. :p

    @Katzenfreund,Joe C: Yup.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  12. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

    Feb 13, 2011
    5,171
    4,811
    180
    :eek: Blurred, the politicians are in bed with the church. It's a case of the blind leading the liars.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  13. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
    4,071
    4,651
    150

    Many people say that Prostitution is the oldest profession. Not Me. I say it's the church. ;)
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  14. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    5,518
    1,453
    180
    :eek:

    :confused:

    :g:

    Jeezzzuuusssss!!!!!:worthy:

    Get a grip, dude...:mushy:

    More so in some countries than others. In the US it is forbidden, however, it is not easy to police if the clergy openly advertises a party during election time (and worse) and the prosecutions are almost non-existent...

    In some "old democracies" the head of the state/"sovereign" is the head of the Church (and you may have "blasphemy laws" still on the books, as it were [see the UK, one of "my" countries]) and so on...

    In Croatia, Ireland, Poland and so on - it's dire!

    It all goes back to Kant's little text on "What is Enlightenment?", I think... See my signature, please.

    Maybe "power seeking" first, then shamanism/church was instrumentalised for "influence" purposes, over keeping one's power, sure...
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  15. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

    Jan 12, 2012
    3,522
    2,093
    120
    translation error, we spell it like this; Khomeini
    be aware of the grammar police, they'll gitcha when your not look'n
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  16. Katzenfreund

    Katzenfreund MDL Expert

    Jul 15, 2016
    1,373
    831
    60
    But if you spell certain names correctly, the real police is alerted and comes after you.
     
  17. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    5,518
    1,453
    180
    :D

    Nah, nah, nah, if you spell it like that (Anglo-Americans must get everywhere and "direct" everything), then "Homo homini Homeini" doesn't work! :D :D :D
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  18. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

    Jan 12, 2012
    3,522
    2,093
    120
    Homo Homeini???.....I would go too far with that one
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  19. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    5,518
    1,453
    180
    Jeezus, Joe...

    Homo homini lupus
    (Hobbes) => Homo homini Homeini (who knows who?)

    Oych...
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  20. PCBONEZ

    PCBONEZ MDL Member

    Mar 10, 2012
    116
    35
    10
    #1880 PCBONEZ, Feb 16, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017
    Inclined to agree.
    If you adjust it to say "Religion" vs "The Church" I would strongly agree.
    "The Church" in that context has been around for a little over 2000 years.
    Religion has been around since cavemen telling stories over the fire. (Long before Prostitution.)

    Neanderthals are known to have buried their dead so it's possible Religion has been around since before man. (Before Homo sapiens sapiens)



    .
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...