Can M$ Detect BIOS Mods?

[MrChris]

Can Microsoft detect if a BIOS Mod was used to activate Vista?

[zzdiesel]

They say that they can't tell anymore then that is an OEM

[Wonder Woman]

i agree with zzdiesel.

no, microsoft can't detect modded bioses.

anyway modded bioses don't come under the purview of microsoft.

it is the sole responsibility of the manufacturer of the motherboard.

[MrChris]

Wow. So if Microsoft really cant detect if Vista was activated using Modded BIOS and not a lagit SLIC based Activation on a real ASUS mobo then they must be PISSED. LOL. I wonder what M$ will do about it. I cant imagin they will just take it in the A$$. But then again it wont be the first time. LOL

Thanks guys/gals,

MrChris

[Cheeky]

I assume they'll do something similar to WGA, probably released with service pack one. I can't see them sitting around and hoping nobody will notice...

[zzdiesel]

They seem to have shot themselves in the foot over this one. They can't really shut us down because they'll also get the legit OEM owners.

I'll say Micro$haft will conspire with the BIOS makers and make it harder for them to be modded as we buy new boards.

[China4Ever]

I'm not totally in agree with what has been said because it's partially true that Microsoft can't detect modded bioses.

If for "modded bioses" we mean hard coded bioses flashed into an eeprom, yes it can't detect it, but situation changes for all using emulators or software activators (like voatk or vista loader etc etc), because these are softwares and being such, can be detected.

So even with a possible service pack those who used bios mods are safe (or at least I hope so) while the others using software activation emulators risk to see theirselves banned.

[Yen]

I have to disagree!!!

YES, they can detect bios mod if they want to. Everyone who knows how to mod and have understand how ACPI tables are working knows that.
One easy way is to get system configuration. _ASUS_ Nootebook SLIC e.g. and mobo with a desktop chipset is not possible.

There are some more effective other ways too. They just have to scan fff00000h area to detect (uncompressed) SLIC and block. OR scan RSDT table for address call and block. OR scan ff200h area detect SLIC and block. (I hope I don't present a way M$ didn't know already.)
Most of our mod methods are useless after.

BUT: IMO M$ will do nothing against it as long as the ammount of used modded bioses stays low. The reason therefore is that M$ will profit of spreading Vista in that way. OS windows wouldn't have become OS number one if M$ had prevented to copy it right from the start.
To flash bios mods is not an easy way for most of the PC users around the world.



anyway modded bioses don't come under the purview of microsoft.

it is the sole responsibility of the manufacturer of the motherboard.

That's probably right. But the aim is to get a valid OEM licence. And that comes under the purview of Microsoft.



Yen

[MrChris]

BUT: IMO M$ will do nothing against it as long as the ammount of used modded bioses stays low.

Im not so sure that microsoft will look at it the same way as im sure by now BIOS modds are spreding pretty fast.

But then again what do I know im just a user that is too cheap to buy a lagit lic. of Vista Ultimate. LOL

MrChris

[sloozer]

of course MS could detect the bios mod if they wanted too. For now its too small a percentage for MS to worry about. all MS has to do is work in conjunction with OEM.

[heffe2001]

Don't know if you guys have seen this or not yet (got it in with my partner access newsletter):
hxxps://partner.microsoft.com/us/40029548

Important Activation Changes to Windows Vista
Keep Your Customers Up and Running
Millions of PCs ship each year with non-genuine Windows software, putting you at a competitive disadvantage and your customers at risk of a less-than-optimal experience. Microsoft remains committed to helping protect consumers and software resellers from the risks associated with pirated software. The significant antipiracy technologies built into Windows Vista software are designed to make the widespread pirating of Windows Vista more difficult. Now, all customers who deploy Windows Vista must successfully activate it using a genuine product key. If a non-genuine product key is used in activation, customers will lose certain features and experience reduced functionality. Learn more to help maintain customer satisfaction and avoid potential business disruption.

Now, this might be for people buying it outright, and not using OEM activation, but if it IS for OEM activations (meaning, your customer must put the key in from the label you put on the side/back of the PC), it's definitely bad news for us...

[Yen]

IMO it IS for OEM activation BUT not for OEM SLP 2.0 (SytemLockedPreinstallation)

Yen

[ancestor(v)]

I don't see anything really new there.

Now, all customers who deploy Windows Vista must successfully activate it using a genuine product key. If a non-genuine product key is used in activation, customers will lose certain features and experience reduced functionality.
just the usual drivel about using genuine keys.

from my own personal experience, this isn't a problem, at least not til now. Entering product key (genuine!), activating via internet wasn't a problem at all.
[the only one thing which I feel is a pain in the arse is that, after a few activations you have to phone micro$uck and explain those morons why you have to activate vista so often]

http://www.wgareadiness.com/ (kinda ridiculous :D ) they say that you a) have to use OEM or b) buy full retail.
if you pirated vista file a lawsuit against the person you downloaded it from, if you bought it, go berserk at the shop :rolleyes:

[bassgoonist]

They seem to have shot themselves in the foot over this one. They can't really shut us down because they'll also get the legit OEM owners.

You mean like they did with dell and all the other huge OEMs and xp preactivation...?
That was for slightly different reasons though. That was people selling computers with pirated copies, not just people pirating for themselves.

[colinzim]

i agree with zzdiesel.

no, microsoft can't detect modded bioses.

anyway modded bioses don't come under the purview of microsoft.

it is the sole responsibility of the manufacturer of the motherboard.

Wonderwoman is right ^^^^ ! ! !

They >can< but won't

[Yen]

"Our goal isn't to stop every "mad scientist" that's on a mission to hack Windows."

Statement of Alex Kochis 10th of April 2007!

Org:

http://blogs.msdn.com/wga/archive/2007/04/10/reported-oem-bios-hacks.aspx

Whoever else is using Vista?:):D:)

Yen

[ancestor(v)]

a bit old, from keznews:
Click here (http://keznews.com/2663_Microsoft_Confirms_Windows_Vista_OEM_BIOS_Cra ck)

from the comments:
hi guys, i'm here to say that i was one of the unknowing victims of a pirate windows vista.. yep, i downloaded this thing called "paradox vista volume activation" and what happened was, it fully activated the copy of vista that i had unknowingly downloaded from the net. so now, i have a fully activated copy of vista ultimate that i did not even pay for... oh noes! i am a victim! help what should i do? i didn't pay for vista and it's fully activated and will work forever as if i had actually paid for it! nooooo! now i have $400 extra dollars in my pocket that i don't know what to do with... please help me get rid of this money someone! help me pay microsoft so i'm not a victim anymore! :( :(
:D

[Co-DePictIon]

After bit of searching, i can concur that m$ is capable of detecting modded BIOS's but detection and prevention are two seperate things. M$ was recently under scruteny after having 'silent downloads' to consumers computers without the constent of the user, which in my reading was allowed to be praticed.

It would similarly appear that the operating system is also not allowed to 'recode' hardware microcode or firmware without permission or at all for that matter as thats the responsiblity of the motherboard manufacturer, so chances them rummaging around you BIOS is unlikely. They can however, scan your system configuration, but must notify you. This is included in their typical privacy statment, which says what data is collected.

If M$ scans are permitted and if the scan collects sufficient data to suggest that the system that the OS is running on system that has a modded BIOS then they can make a rough estimation of how many BIOS's are modded to pass the validation checks M$ throws about.

The problem can only be tackeld from three ways as i see it, an update in SP1, a new form of WGA, or for them to completely knock out OEM activation in future OS's. An SP could easily knock a modded bios out, if they block the relevent tables in the bios. However if they do this, it could potentally affect unmodded bios's. The last thing M$ want is an agry mob of laptop waving consumers outside golden Gate$' frontdoor.:rolleyes:

Secondly they introduce a new WGA that sends unique activation data home, and compares it with of course your PID. And if your PID appears to be invalid, for example, they could lock you out as they did with XP, which then would only affect users with invalid PIDs. and also a scan of your bios could also be used to see what data is hidden in your BIOS and if it matches what the motherboard manufacturer actually put there, especially if your make or model is NOT listed by the OEM for automatic activation ect.

But as may end users are lame at taking risks the chance of M$ doing anyting for modded bios's is low, as the main target is those selling off priated software and those with software emulated activation.

Then there are of course people like me who brought a OS with a genuine computer. the computer failed within a short space of time but dare i say this Dhell refused to do anything to repair the computer:eek: (no surprise) so i had an installation disc with a licence i perchased that was useless. When i tried to transfer activation, M$ denyed me the privage, so instead of pointlessly buying another copy i decided to mod my bios and install Vista on my custom built desktop pc with a genuine oem key which wouldnt work through their online activation service.

Its mostly speculation, so all i can say is we all have to ride it out and see if the stupid boffins at M$ will do anything to kick us all off our perches

[Sabresite]

I highly doubt they would go to the extent of detecting modified bioses. To do this, they would have to create a super algorithm to check every version of every bios of every oem manufacturer that they provide this to. It seems unrealistic.

[Yen]

The super algorithm doesn't have to be "super"! As I stated before there is a easy way to detect them. The only kind that is hard to detect is the dynamic method, cause the official SLIC containing bioses use this method as well. These methods are the ISA, the PCI, The AMI-FC and the Phoenix mods. All the superstatic ones are easy to detect. The "best" regarding to be not detected are all Phoenix (NOT Phoenix-Award) and the AMI FC-mods. The Asus Award bios mods with BBPubkey and BBMarker added are fine, too.

Yen

[sunfish]

Is SP1 beta safe for modded bios?

[zzdiesel]

I have it on mine and had no problems

[Chronos]

Can Microsoft detect if a BIOS Mod was used to activate Vista?

Maybe it will be offtopic... But!

The same thing is going on with KMS activation. Everyone knows that somewhere in Korea exists server which is free to access (and to activate your Business or Enterprise versions of Windows Vista). Microsoft MSDN forums were discussing that problem, but Korean KMS server is still ready to activate your copy of Windows. Why? Maybe Microsoft thinks, that we are not smart enough to find that method. If "Pirate" KMS server is still working there is no reason to tremble. Of course it is my IMHO.

Chronos.

[shay_g]

I have to disagree!!!

YES, they can detect bios mod if they want to. Everyone who knows how to mod and have understand how ACPI tables are working knows that.
One easy way is to get system configuration. _ASUS_ Nootebook SLIC e.g. and mobo with a desktop chipset is not possible.

There are some more effective other ways too. They just have to scan fff00000h area to detect (uncompressed) SLIC and block. OR scan RSDT table for address call and block. OR scan ff200h area detect SLIC and block. (I hope I don't present a way M$ didn't know already.)
Most of our mod methods are useless after.

BUT: IMO M$ will do nothing against it as long as the ammount of used modded bioses stays low. The reason therefore is that M$ will profit of spreading Vista in that way. OS windows wouldn't have become OS number one if M$ had prevented to copy it right from the start.
To flash bios mods is not an easy way for most of the PC users around the world.



That's probably right. But the aim is to get a valid OEM licence. And that comes under the purview of Microsoft.



Yen

I have to disagree with you because i have "sony vaio" slic and i know there is the some slic in the "sony vaio" desktop computer's :D

if there is any original OEM desktop computer from asus with slic i wonder what is wrote in his slic :rolleyes:

EDIT: oops i didn't see that post is too old... sorry

[xStevenx]

Does everyone still feel the same about this now?

[Yen]

The basics of my explanation are still true.
Two points of view have changed:

-I saw super static addressed ACPI tables at a OFFICIAL OEM bios. To differentiate a mod and a official OEM bios is became more difficult.

-They really don't care about bios mods (no announcements of M$ to make them disabled)

[xStevenx]

I didnt know that their was "official" super static mods now that is awesome! I was always worried that since they didnt really exist that it would be a red flag.

I think if bios mods were going to become more mainstream, then it would have. I think Microsoft knows that it's too complicated for the average user(like 95% of people). Now if W7 is able to be cracked by the same method, then thats a different story.